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	<title>Comments on: Creating the Open Data Bargain in Cities</title>
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	<link>http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/</link>
	<description>if writing is a muscle, this is my gym</description>
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		<title>By: David Eaves</title>
		<link>http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-419334</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ton - Great piece you link to. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The challenge of not having citizens get overly frustrated is enormous. We are overturning over a century&#039;s (and sometimes much, much longer) worth of bureaucratic culture - for some governments this movement is a wholesale assault on how they operate, their values and the trust they believe they are supposed to be carrying. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This isn&#039;t to say they are right, but it is a dramatic shift and one we need to help them figure out how to transition through - not simply berate them for not moving fast enough. Everybody is eager to cite the overly-cautious, conservative bureaucrat as a problem (and they are) but so is the citizen who won&#039;t get into somebody else&#039;s shoes, imagine the world from their perspective and help try move a system in a constructive way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ton &#8211; Great piece you link to. </p>
<p>The challenge of not having citizens get overly frustrated is enormous. We are overturning over a century&#39;s (and sometimes much, much longer) worth of bureaucratic culture &#8211; for some governments this movement is a wholesale assault on how they operate, their values and the trust they believe they are supposed to be carrying. </p>
<p>This isn&#39;t to say they are right, but it is a dramatic shift and one we need to help them figure out how to transition through &#8211; not simply berate them for not moving fast enough. Everybody is eager to cite the overly-cautious, conservative bureaucrat as a problem (and they are) but so is the citizen who won&#39;t get into somebody else&#39;s shoes, imagine the world from their perspective and help try move a system in a constructive way.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eaves</title>
		<link>http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-419333</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eaves.ca/?p=1519#comment-419333</guid>
		<description>Daniel - great comment and very much agree with the last paragraph. The more cities open up their data the more applications there will be - it is like have a larger and larger install base to play with. I&#039;m definitely thinking about that and it is shaping some of my projects - more on that in a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel &#8211; great comment and very much agree with the last paragraph. The more cities open up their data the more applications there will be &#8211; it is like have a larger and larger install base to play with. I&#39;m definitely thinking about that and it is shaping some of my projects &#8211; more on that in a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Ton Zijlstra</title>
		<link>http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-419328</link>
		<dc:creator>Ton Zijlstra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eaves.ca/?p=1519#comment-419328</guid>
		<description>Enjoyed that presentation David, thanks. As to the &#039;bargain&#039;, that&#039;s a good way to express what&#039;s needed to bring open gov data forward better and faster. It is also something that isn&#039;t readily accepted yet by those on the&#039; citizen side&#039; of the bargain, as I&#039;ve noticed in several sessions and events. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/reboot_11_trans_1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/re...&lt;/a&gt; for how I described what&#039;s needed on both sides of the bargain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoyed that presentation David, thanks. As to the &#39;bargain&#39;, that&#39;s a good way to express what&#39;s needed to bring open gov data forward better and faster. It is also something that isn&#39;t readily accepted yet by those on the&#39; citizen side&#39; of the bargain, as I&#39;ve noticed in several sessions and events. See <a href="http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/reboot_11_trans_1.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/re.." rel="nofollow">http://www.zylstra.org/blog/archives/2009/07/re..</a>. for how I described what&#39;s needed on both sides of the bargain.</p>
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		<title>By: danielharan</title>
		<link>http://eaves.ca/2009/07/27/creating-the-open-data-bargain-in-cities/comment-page-1/#comment-419327</link>
		<dc:creator>danielharan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eaves.ca/?p=1519#comment-419327</guid>
		<description>The original bargain is: we give you money, so you do things that are good for the general population.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We can&#039;t see if that bargain is being respected unless the city is more transparent. Many of our cities are bogged down by bureaucracy and crippled by corruption. Transparency will help expose all this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Progressive cities can work with techies to open data in better formats or create new data sets. That warrants a new bargain where we have to do something interesting in exchange.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not all cities are so progressive. In those cases, we need a baseline of transparency. Minutes from council meetings, transit, infrastructure data (including roads) and council electoral district shapefiles should all be made freely available.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, it should be noted that software can be copied. Geeks in your city may not have to write anything particularly novel, but get a lot of value deploying existing software. And the more cities, the more incentive there is for geeks to create globally useful software. So if we want to have a bargain with geeks, it&#039;s a global, rather than city-level bargain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original bargain is: we give you money, so you do things that are good for the general population.</p>
<p>We can&#39;t see if that bargain is being respected unless the city is more transparent. Many of our cities are bogged down by bureaucracy and crippled by corruption. Transparency will help expose all this.</p>
<p>Progressive cities can work with techies to open data in better formats or create new data sets. That warrants a new bargain where we have to do something interesting in exchange.</p>
<p>Not all cities are so progressive. In those cases, we need a baseline of transparency. Minutes from council meetings, transit, infrastructure data (including roads) and council electoral district shapefiles should all be made freely available.</p>
<p>Finally, it should be noted that software can be copied. Geeks in your city may not have to write anything particularly novel, but get a lot of value deploying existing software. And the more cities, the more incentive there is for geeks to create globally useful software. So if we want to have a bargain with geeks, it&#39;s a global, rather than city-level bargain.</p>
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