The other reason young people don’t vote – or why I didn’t vote yesterday

I tried voting yesterday in a local by-election (advanced poll). Sadly, I was unsuccessful.

First, I went to the Elections Canada by-election website. Guess which link tells you the election dates and locations? (hint: it is under the “and more…” link).

Unsurprisingly, the advanced poll was at a local church (more on that below) that was a half kilometer away from all the local bus routes. But the kicker was that I’d failed to notice the opening time of the polling station, so upon my arrival at 10:15 (I was hoping to arrive after the prework rush) I discovered that the polling booth wouldn’t open until 11:00am. With a 11am meeting scheduled downtown, my day of democracy was over. Was my negative experience Elections Canada’s fault? Absolutely not. I’d failed to notice the polling start time. But it did make me wonder about the whole process of voting, and why young people seem to avoid it.

A lot of noise has been made about the dropping voting rates among young people. Some (usually young people) argue politicians and political parties don’t advocate agendas or messages that appeal to young people. Others (usually their parents) claim our schools fail to teach enough civics and that society doesn’t imbue the behaviour in our young people. And finally, still other people (usually their grandparents) believe young people are simply hedonistic, self-centered, and lazy (and likely undeserving of the right to vote anyway).

I agree that many young people don’t vote because they fail to see how a single vote in a the political process will have any impact, particularly when the choices are, quite frankly, not that appealing. That said, the rise of Barack Obama clearly points to the fact that young people will mobilize themselves and vote in fairly large numbers if stirred.

There is however another, important reason why I believe young people don’t vote. Some call it laziness. I prefer the term convenience.

The simple fact is that the voting infrastructure we use today was essentially built by and for our grandparents. Since then, it has been barely tweaked. Try this out. In the 1960’s if you were a “young person” (e.g 20-30) you were almost certainly married and had two kids. (60’s avg marriage age was 24 for men, 20 for women). Thinking in terms of the 1950s and 60s: What were the 3 institutions you probably visited on a daily basis? How about A) the local community centre, B) the local school, and C) the local church.

Now, if you are between the age of 25 and 35 or under, name me three institutions you probably haven’t visited in over a decade.

…exactly.

Do young people not vote because they are lazy? Maybe. But they also didn’t have a voting system designed around them like their grandparents did. Why aren’t their voting booths in subway stations? The lobbies of office towers? The local shopping mall? How about Starbucks? Somewhere, anywhere, where people actually congregate. Heaven forbid that voting booths be where the voters are.

I don’t claim that such a move would magically solve the youth voting issue. But imagine if such a move increased young voting turnout by even 5%. Suddenly the youth demographic would be the fastest growing segment of voters and you can bet your bottom dollar that political parties would suddenly pay a lot more attention. That in turn might create a virtuous circle: with more parties appealing to them, more young people might turn out to vote.

It’s not magic bullet – but since we can’t make political parties appeal to young people, let’s fix what we can control. Besides, it wouldn’t hurt to have a voting infrastructure designed by and for the 21st century, would it?

36 thoughts on “The other reason young people don’t vote – or why I didn’t vote yesterday

  1. Peter

    We wrote a report last fall on increased advance voting opportunities for Elections Canada (www.elections.ca/loi/res/Potential_Impacts_e.pdf). I think we are less convinced than you about how much such measures will bring in young people. A five percentage point (not %) increase would be quite dramatic.

    Second, it is not clear from survey research that young people vote less because they are more cynical. Rather, the evidence suggests that they are less cynical than their parents. Something else is going on, and it’s likely not merely a question of civic duty.

    Finally, good on you for at least trying to vote!

    Reply
  2. 300baud

    It could be that the volunteers that run voting stations are all your grandparents. Feel free to sign up and put a voting station where you think it is needed. Last Ontario election, I did not have to leave my condo to vote. That was pretty cool. I hear that the increase in the number of voting stations did not make a big impact on turnout tho.

    Reply
  3. Peter

    We wrote a report last fall on increased advance voting opportunities for Elections Canada (http://www.elections.ca/loi/res/Potential_Impacts_e.pdf). I think we are less convinced than you about how much such measures will bring in young people. A five percentage point (not %) increase would be quite dramatic. Second, it is not clear from survey research that young people vote less because they are more cynical. Rather, the evidence suggests that they are less cynical than their parents. Something else is going on, and it’s likely not merely a question of civic duty. Finally, good on you for at least trying to vote!

    Reply
  4. 300baud

    It could be that the volunteers that run voting stations are all your grandparents. Feel free to sign up and put a voting station where you think it is needed. Last Ontario election, I did not have to leave my condo to vote. That was pretty cool. I hear that the increase in the number of voting stations did not make a big impact on turnout tho.

    Reply
  5. Cara

    Young people use community centres. I worked for 10 days at an advanced poll in a community centre for Elections Ontario last year and saw plenty of young people walk by. Some even voted. But the extra days didn’t increase the voter turnout.
    There are also practical considerations about where to place voting stations. First of all, not many Starbucks, for instance, would want to rent out space for voting because it would be disruptive to their businesses. The voting station I worked at had been shoe-horned into a small space at the entrance of a very busy community centre. Even small line ups made it hard for community centre work to get done. But we had to use this horrid space because the community centre didn’t want to loose the income they would from cancelling programmes if they put us elsewhere.
    What might be convenience for a potential voter could be expensive and inconvenient for the business/organization renting out the space.
    Believe me, we all asked why Elections Ontario had put the advanced poll in such a lousy location and were told it was because it had been impossible to find rental space elsewhere.

    Reply
  6. Cara

    Young people use community centres. I worked for 10 days at an advanced poll in a community centre for Elections Ontario last year and saw plenty of young people walk by. Some even voted. But the extra days didn’t increase the voter turnout.There are also practical considerations about where to place voting stations. First of all, not many Starbucks, for instance, would want to rent out space for voting because it would be disruptive to their businesses. The voting station I worked at had been shoe-horned into a small space at the entrance of a very busy community centre. Even small line ups made it hard for community centre work to get done. But we had to use this horrid space because the community centre didn’t want to loose the income they would from cancelling programmes if they put us elsewhere. What might be convenience for a potential voter could be expensive and inconvenient for the business/organization renting out the space. Believe me, we all asked why Elections Ontario had put the advanced poll in such a lousy location and were told it was because it had been impossible to find rental space elsewhere.

    Reply
  7. Rick

    Sorry – I don’t buy your lame excuses.

    What other type of building has large space, is virtually unused for several days during the week, generally on the ground floor with ample parking and wheelchair access and is conveniently located in almost every neighbourhood?? Exactly. What did you expect – the polling station to be at the drugstore? At McDonald’s? Really… name a better available place. Community centres and churches are probably where 90% of polling stations are located. Add elementary school gyms to that list, and I bet you haven’t been in one of those for awhile, either.

    Second. Half a kilometre. 500 metres. That’s not a convenience issue. That’s laziness pure and simple.

    And you scheduled a meeting for the same time that you planned to vote. Again, that’s clearly the system’s fault. Heaven forbid you check beforehand, like you would at a movie theatre for showtimes, etc. Nah. The government owes you big time. Clearly you’ve been mistreated here.

    Oh – and did I mention you get time off from work, by law, if you require it?

    Really, voting is so inconvenient. Mommy, daddy can I have my allowance now?

    Reply
  8. Rick

    Sorry – I don’t buy your lame excuses.What other type of building has large space, is virtually unused for several days during the week, generally on the ground floor with ample parking and wheelchair access and is conveniently located in almost every neighbourhood?? Exactly. What did you expect – the polling station to be at the drugstore? At McDonald’s? Really… name a better available place. Community centres and churches are probably where 90% of polling stations are located. Add elementary school gyms to that list, and I bet you haven’t been in one of those for awhile, either.Second. Half a kilometre. 500 metres. That’s not a convenience issue. That’s laziness pure and simple.And you scheduled a meeting for the same time that you planned to vote. Again, that’s clearly the system’s fault. Heaven forbid you check beforehand, like you would at a movie theatre for showtimes, etc. Nah. The government owes you big time. Clearly you’ve been mistreated here.Oh – and did I mention you get time off from work, by law, if you require it? Really, voting is so inconvenient. Mommy, daddy can I have my allowance now?

    Reply
  9. Steph D

    To your points on why youth don’t vote you point out 3 reasons:
    – Politicians and political parties don’t advocate agendas or messages that appeal to young people
    – Claim our schools fail to teach enough civics and that society doesn’t imbue the behaviour in our young people
    – Young people are simply hedonistic, self-centered, and lazy (and likely undeserving of the right to vote anyway).

    Can I vote for all of the above?

    On the first point, with the boomer demographic controlling the agenda into their golden age, even moreso now that the majority of politicians are their own peers in this age group, it’s hard to see your views reflected in your parents. So yes, I buy that argument to a certain point. Plus, it’s a vicious cycle – I won’t vote because they don’t listen to me, and they won’t listen to you as long as most of your age group don’t vote.

    As for the 2nd point, when you grow up and all you hear about are scandals and crimes by your elected ‘leaders’, it isn’t difficult to understand why you may become cynical. That message bombards those youth who care enough to listen, and drowns out the more important message of civic duty. And let’s be honest – whether the schools tell you to vote or not won’t make any difference whatsoever. It’s in the behaviours you learn from your environment, and as long as parents, peer groups and the media keep driving the “politicians are crooks” agenda (and politicians keep proving them right), that won’t change much.

    And to the third point, there is some truth to the fact that a large segment of youth aren’t that interested and informed on the issues at hand, and SHOULDN’T vote. However, I think quite a few in the older demographics fit into that category as well, so this isn’t strictly a generational issue.

    But my biggest pet peeve isn’t the voter turn out. You could have 90% turnout, and I still wouldn’t be impressed, other than by the sheer number of people taking the 15 minutes out of their day to cast a ballot. What matters most is how many INFORMED voters cast ballots. I’d rather have a 10% voter turnout instead of a 90% but 80% are ignorant to the issues.

    Modernizing the election system would be a great first step. If we can complete one of the most private of civic duties as file our taxes online, why can we not vote the same way??

    Reply
  10. Steph D

    To your points on why youth don’t vote you point out 3 reasons:- Politicians and political parties don’t advocate agendas or messages that appeal to young people- Claim our schools fail to teach enough civics and that society doesn’t imbue the behaviour in our young people- Young people are simply hedonistic, self-centered, and lazy (and likely undeserving of the right to vote anyway).Can I vote for all of the above?On the first point, with the boomer demographic controlling the agenda into their golden age, even moreso now that the majority of politicians are their own peers in this age group, it’s hard to see your views reflected in your parents. So yes, I buy that argument to a certain point. Plus, it’s a vicious cycle – I won’t vote because they don’t listen to me, and they won’t listen to you as long as most of your age group don’t vote.As for the 2nd point, when you grow up and all you hear about are scandals and crimes by your elected ‘leaders’, it isn’t difficult to understand why you may become cynical. That message bombards those youth who care enough to listen, and drowns out the more important message of civic duty. And let’s be honest – whether the schools tell you to vote or not won’t make any difference whatsoever. It’s in the behaviours you learn from your environment, and as long as parents, peer groups and the media keep driving the “politicians are crooks” agenda (and politicians keep proving them right), that won’t change much.And to the third point, there is some truth to the fact that a large segment of youth aren’t that interested and informed on the issues at hand, and SHOULDN’T vote. However, I think quite a few in the older demographics fit into that category as well, so this isn’t strictly a generational issue.But my biggest pet peeve isn’t the voter turn out. You could have 90% turnout, and I still wouldn’t be impressed, other than by the sheer number of people taking the 15 minutes out of their day to cast a ballot. What matters most is how many INFORMED voters cast ballots. I’d rather have a 10% voter turnout instead of a 90% but 80% are ignorant to the issues.Modernizing the election system would be a great first step. If we can complete one of the most private of civic duties as file our taxes online, why can we not vote the same way??

    Reply
  11. David Humphrey

    So youth have systematically disengaged from civic, secular, and religious institutions, and you don’t also see a correlation with political involvement? The problem is not one of voting space, but with new value systems.

    Reply
  12. David Humphrey

    So youth have systematically disengaged from civic, secular, and religious institutions, and you don’t also see a correlation with political involvement? The problem is not one of voting space, but with new value systems.

    Reply
  13. Pingback: Why Young People Don’t Vote « Kickstart: The Book

  14. Jeremy Vernon

    The grandparents you describe share my (and anecdotally, most political engaged youth I’ve talked to about this) point of view.

    Decisions are made by those who show up.

    My sociology professor conducted a clicker poll today regarding this very topic. The consensus is reigning apathy – not a sense of barrier to entry.

    The poll showed that the class understood it could be involved, it merely didn’t care because it found other things more interesting and worthwhile. Why?

    The poll showed that the class believed politics was too much work.

    I’d be curious to know the relative rates of volunteerism over the same periods.

    Youth are progressively becoming more selfish, solipsistic and demanding of systemic convenience it seems – we are the “me” generation after all.

    I don’t know if pandering to this trend is the best strategy. Nineteen countries have enforced compulsory voting – can you say they have unequivocally better governments as a result? Or even “more democratic” (whatever that means)?

    Which is to say – political engagement of youth doesn’t start or end at voluntary disenfranchisement – and using a McDonald’s convenience-centric model hardly seems the best route to quality.

    Reply
  15. Jeremy Vernon

    The grandparents you describe share my (and anecdotally, most political engaged youth I’ve talked to about this) point of view. Decisions are made by those who show up. My sociology professor conducted a clicker poll today regarding this very topic. The consensus is reigning apathy – not a sense of barrier to entry.The poll showed that the class understood it could be involved, it merely didn’t care because it found other things more interesting and worthwhile. Why?The poll showed that the class believed politics was too much work. I’d be curious to know the relative rates of volunteerism over the same periods. Youth are progressively becoming more selfish, solipsistic and demanding of systemic convenience it seems – we are the “me” generation after all.I don’t know if pandering to this trend is the best strategy. Nineteen countries have enforced compulsory voting – can you say they have unequivocally better governments as a result? Or even “more democratic” (whatever that means)?Which is to say – political engagement of youth doesn’t start or end at voluntary disenfranchisement – and using a McDonald’s convenience-centric model hardly seems the best route to quality.

    Reply
  16. Pingback: Why Young People Don’t Vote, Part 2 « Kickstart: The Book

  17. Peter MacLeod

    A report from the field in Toronto Centre:

    Outside of a national election, news and the usual partisan commotion has been a bit sparse. And I’ll admit that it really only dawned on me today that the vote is on Monday.

    So here’s the problem: I’m traveling today through Wednesday and when I called the local returning office to find out how I could cast a ballot before I leave town this afternoon, I was told, not surprisingly, that I had missed the advance poll and mail-in ballot and that there was now absolutely no way for me to vote.

    No showing up at the station that is already operational. No signing an affidavit, no ticking any special box, no minor inconvenience to dissuade casual advance voting. No nothing, just no vote.

    These are the rules, but frankly I think they’re bad, unimaginative ones.

    And while making it easier for voters to cast ballots won’t do much to address the underlying weaknesses that make participation in our electoral system sometimes unattractive, it surely is a good, basic place to start.

    Making it easier to vote is low-hanging fruit… It’s hardly worth arguing about. It just needs to get done.

    Reply
  18. Peter MacLeod

    A report from the field in Toronto Centre: Outside of a national election, news and the usual partisan commotion has been a bit sparse. And I’ll admit that it really only dawned on me today that the vote is on Monday. So here’s the problem: I’m traveling today through Wednesday and when I called the local returning office to find out how I could cast a ballot before I leave town this afternoon, I was told, not surprisingly, that I had missed the advance poll and mail-in ballot and that there was now absolutely no way for me to vote.No showing up at the station that is already operational. No signing an affidavit, no ticking any special box, no minor inconvenience to dissuade casual advance voting. No nothing, just no vote.These are the rules, but frankly I think they’re bad, unimaginative ones. And while making it easier for voters to cast ballots won’t do much to address the underlying weaknesses that make participation in our electoral system sometimes unattractive, it surely is a good, basic place to start. Making it easier to vote is low-hanging fruit… It’s hardly worth arguing about. It just needs to get done.

    Reply
  19. Mike

    I assume I’m part of that percentage everyone is talking about, 23, and don’t vote. I’m definitely part of the line of thinking that voting and politics is far to complicated for me to follow. i am clueless to what is happening politically, and even if it where easier to vote i probably wouldn’t end up doing so. I looked at the line up at the school residence to vote and decided that was enough to discourage my participation. i don’t really have the time to follow what political decisions are being made, and agree that all the media coverage on the faults of politicians weakens my faith in the political system in general. my line of thinking is; what point is there in being involved in a political system that i don’t understand, and where a lot of people are payed to yell back and forth at each other about topics i don’t care about. it is fare to say that i may be bias for not being involved in this process growing up, so trying to understand it now feels futile. I think I’ll vote Liberal next time. I don’t want any personal attacks for my opinion, just figured you may want the perspective of an individual in the demographic being discussed.

    Reply
  20. David Eaves Post author

    Hey Mike,

    Thanks for posting and sharing. The one thing I’ve enjoyed about running this blog is that post like Rick’s are generally few and far between.

    I do think it is interesting that, although you claim access wasn’t a barrier you also say that the long line further discouraged you. That would be another type of barrier. Some people say we are impatient – I say we are accustomed to being well served and simply expect voting to mirror the convenience we experience in other parts of our life (like using a cell phone).
    A shorter line might not a gotten you to vote (although your comments suggests it might have) but it might have been enough to get some of your other, busy peers, to vote.

    Thanks for sharing

    Reply
  21. Mike

    I assume I’m part of that percentage everyone is talking about, 23, and don’t vote. I’m definitely part of the line of thinking that voting and politics is far to complicated for me to follow. i am clueless to what is happening politically, and even if it where easier to vote i probably wouldn’t end up doing so. I looked at the line up at the school residence to vote and decided that was enough to discourage my participation. i don’t really have the time to follow what political decisions are being made, and agree that all the media coverage on the faults of politicians weakens my faith in the political system in general. my line of thinking is; what point is there in being involved in a political system that i don’t understand, and where a lot of people are payed to yell back and forth at each other about topics i don’t care about. it is fare to say that i may be bias for not being involved in this process growing up, so trying to understand it now feels futile. I think I’ll vote Liberal next time. I don’t want any personal attacks for my opinion, just figured you may want the perspective of an individual in the demographic being discussed.

    Reply
  22. David Eaves

    Hey Mike,Thanks for posting and sharing. The one thing I’ve enjoyed about running this blog is that post like Rick’s are generally few and far between.I do think it is interesting that, although you claim access wasn’t a barrier you also say that the long line further discouraged you. That would be another type of barrier. Some people say we are impatient – I say we are accustomed to being well served and simply expect voting to mirror the convenience we experience in other parts of our life (like using a cell phone).A shorter line might not a gotten you to vote (although your comments suggests it might have) but it might have been enough to get some of your other, busy peers, to vote.Thanks for sharing

    Reply
  23. Cara

    “Some people say we are impatient- I say we are accustomed to being well serived and simply expect voting to mirror the convenience we experience in other parts of our life …

    May I suggest that the mentality of consumerism is not the best way to understand how to live life. For several years I’ve seen this template used to form expectations and all it does as far as I can see is create a self-absorbed sense of entitlement. It’s not an attitude that creates community or even happiness.

    Reply
  24. Cara

    “Some people say we are impatient- I say we are accustomed to being well serived and simply expect voting to mirror the convenience we experience in other parts of our life … May I suggest that the mentality of consumerism is not the best way to understand how to live life. For several years I’ve seen this template used to form expectations and all it does as far as I can see is create a self-absorbed sense of entitlement. It’s not an attitude that creates community or even happiness.

    Reply
  25. Jay

    I wouldn’t consider myself self-centered or lazy or anything like that, I just don’t see the value in voting. It is impossible for one person to represent you and everything you believe in. I’m 25 and out of everyone I know (friends and family), only one friend I have that is 29 votes. Seems like everyone likes to categorize it as an age thing, but really there are just different types of people; those that think it matters and those that don’t. I think my best suggestion for the coincidence of younger people not voting as much is because we [younger generations] have grown up seeing how pathetic the our government and laws are.

    Reply
  26. Jay

    I wouldn’t consider myself self-centered or lazy or anything like that, I just don’t see the value in voting. It is impossible for one person to represent you and everything you believe in. I’m 25 and out of everyone I know (friends and family), only one friend I have that is 29 votes. Seems like everyone likes to categorize it as an age thing, but really there are just different types of people; those that think it matters and those that don’t. I think my best suggestion for the coincidence of younger people not voting as much is because we [younger generations] have grown up seeing how pathetic the our government and laws are.

    Reply
  27. Pingback: www.reformtheUSgovernment.com | eaves.ca

  28. Tim

    Maybe show a little media saavy and think critically about what you read in the newspaper? You don't care that the party you say you will vote for wants to add a tax to gas? Even if you don't drive you'll still have to pay for it because when the cost of transport goes up its inevitably added to what you pay at the till. If you're not rich – thats going to hurt. Just an example of how political decisions can affect you directly on the nose.

    Reply
  29. Tim

    Maybe show a little media saavy and think critically about what you read in the newspaper? You don't care that the party you say you will vote for wants to add a tax to gas? Even if you don't drive you'll still have to pay for it because when the cost of transport goes up its inevitably added to what you pay at the till. If you're not rich – thats going to hurt. Just an example of how political decisions can affect you directly on the nose.

    Reply
  30. Bradley

    I’ve made a conscious decision note to vote. I’m aware of the political parties on offer, and I know their positions on various issues. It’s just that, as a libertarian, none of these parties reflect my views. All of them promote hopelessly high levels of government spending, all of them defend handouts to corporations and bureaucrat-directed economic “development”, none of them really care about civil liberties, and none of them understand the importance of the free market.

    Given this state of affairs, it’s simply not worth my time to travel to a voting booth and express a mildly lesser relative dislike for one particular candidate over the others. The Canadian state moves forward, inexorably.

    Reply
  31. Riley o' Riles

    The last election I spent doing this – two and a half hours walking, going from station to elections Canada office back to station again. Waiting for my information to check out. Trying to be persuaded to vote in ‘home town’, even though I have been going to university for 4 years in this one, just not at a permanent address at the age of 23 I’ve spent most of my eligible years in my current city so guess which one I feel more attached to voting in.

    Yeah – this was day of elections. Passed Green Party and NDP offices. Both closed and locked tight at 4 P.M. on ED. Honestly, if there had been at least a secretary in there to tell me where my polling station or the elections Canada office was (Didn’t have internet, literally no signs around for Elections info) I would have voted for that party. I mean I was even lucky enough to find out where my polling station was in the first place to get this all started – happened to bump into one of the few people who still walk around, friendly enough to talk without thinking they’re about to get mugged – and vote. I hear all this BS about free rides to and from polling stations etc but that was BS. At least in Manitoba.

    So yeah, got to polls, wrote on my ballot that I am intentionally spoiling it and dropped it in box. There were maybe two other people there who could have passed for under 25. Six if you count 30. Believe me it wasn’t hard to count, I just looked for males without grey hair or women who didn’t look like a worn out housewife. Funny thing is all us young ones looked more worn out then they did – all the oldies were obviously there for the donuts, coffee and mingling. They wouldn’t have been if they weren’t retired or had something better to do, I can guarantee that.

    Later my friends called me an idiot for wasting so much time. If I hadn’t been busy that day I wouldn’t have even had enough time to spoil my ballot properly. Unless you own or desire to drive around a vehicle, have a house and have lived in it for more then 3 years and don’t have a job or are off that day voting is just not worth it in such a screwed up system. Especially one where if you aren’t a Liberal or Conservative in the right place you will never be represented any ways.

    Reply
  32. Dylan

    I’m 22 and don’t vote, but it’s not because I’m lazy, uninterested, or feel that one vote doesn’t matter. No it’s simply because I don’t feel that any of these politicians deserve to be in charge. Currently as we stand the political system is so screwed up that it doesn’t even matter who’s in charge. So until there’s some sort of massive overhall of the system, or someone new steps forward who actually plans to do things completely different I’m not going to waste my time voting.  

    Reply
  33. Leeman

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek
    ^^^ Good reason we dont vote
    Also.. Young people (I am a young adult) Have been bought by the corporations and are too busy playing video games to give a shit about the government.. I have better things to do like play League of Legends… Regardless of who is in power, I go on with my merry way.. Government is a giant waste of time so filled with lies and hidden agendas, its just another form of gambling… and I dont gamble.

    Reply
  34. Leeman

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efKguI0NFek
    ^^^ Good reason we dont vote
    Also.. Young people (I am a young adult) Have been bought by the corporations and are too busy playing video games to give a shit about the government.. I have better things to do like play League of Legends… Regardless of who is in power, I go on with my merry way.. Government is a giant waste of time so filled with lies and hidden agendas, its just another form of gambling… and I dont gamble.

    Reply

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